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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Ditto Waltham41 - when I was a teenager living in rural Wisconsin, we could (and did ) just poke our guns practically out the back door and open fire. Then all those "city folks" and members of the farm families surrounding us built houses all around us, and the ability to shoot went away.

Hey, Randy. Yeah - West Texas is not densely populated. But - 1. it's flat, and I don't own land outside of town (and a bulldozer to make a berm). and 2. 99% of the land here is privately owned. It's not like New Mexico, Utah, or Arizona where there is a lot of federally-owned land where you can shoot as long as it's safe. The only way you can shoot ( or go 4-wheeling around here) is to join a club (unless your idea of 4-wheeling is tooling down flat township roads after a rain or snow event). The nearest clubs are 2 or more hours driving away.

There was a range just outside of town where the public could shoot rifles, but it shut down 2 or 3 years ago when the owner decided to retire, and sold out to a local developer. That's why I'm here - I bought a 995 so I could shoot a rifle-sized weapon at the local indoor pistol range. I drive all week long at work - I'm not interested in a 4-hour round trip for an hour or two of shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:08 pm 
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pvsinger wrote:
Ditto Waltham41 - when I was a teenager living in rural Wisconsin, we could (and did ) just poke our guns practically out the back door and open fire. Then all those "city folks" and members of the farm families surrounding us built houses all around us, and the ability to shoot went away.

Hey, Randy. Yeah - West Texas is not densely populated. But - 1. it's flat, and I don't own land outside of town (and a bulldozer to make a berm). and 2. 99% of the land here is privately owned. It's not like New Mexico, Utah, or Arizona where there is a lot of federally-owned land where you can shoot as long as it's safe. The only way you can shoot ( or go 4-wheeling around here) is to join a club (unless your idea of 4-wheeling is tooling down flat township roads after a rain or snow event). The nearest clubs are 2 or more hours driving away.

There was a range just outside of town where the public could shoot rifles, but it shut down 2 or 3 years ago when the owner decided to retire, and sold out to a local developer. That's why I'm here - I bought a 995 so I could shoot a rifle-sized weapon at the local indoor pistol range. I drive all week long at work - I'm not interested in a 4-hour round trip for an hour or two of shooting.


Yup, got ya. But to beat a dead horse you still might be able to find one of those local land owners that would be happy to let (and help you) build a backdrop of wood and sand. Berms are nice but not always needed if you aren't doing action shooting and are just statically punching holes in paper or making steel ring. :dunno: And realistically, no more than a mile is needed behind whatever you are shooting at for 90% of the firearms you would use. Unless you shoot upwards, then things change.
Although my little range is sort of in timber there is still a house directly behind the small berm I have (about four feet tall) about a half mile away. This is the direction I shoot the pistols. For the bigger rifles (7.62's x 54r and 39) I shoot in the opposite direction at a brush pile (that would never actually stop a bullet however) but the houses in that direction are over a mile away, downhill from me, and off to each side by a few hundred yards. Is the possibility there for a long distance ricochet? Possibly. But if I lived my life on what could possibly happen I'd never leave the house. To me it's a well considered risk that I'm willing to take. Just like driving a semi in the snow. Bad things CAN happen, but WILL they? Probably not. Ya just never know until you try however. I'm old school, I don't take safety to the extremes they suggest these days. Safe is good, but not at the expense of never doing anything because there is an element, no matter how remote, of possible harm happening somehow. If that were the case, everyone would be a woman. :whistle:

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Randy... Better hope your wife doesn't read that one!! :slap:
This is slightly off subject - but did you notice this post has had 3,830 views? While most of other posts hardly make it into the triple digits?? Any theories on why that is happening?? :thinkin: Does this post show up on Google more than the rest?

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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:35 am 
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Maybe there are 3,800 other Lubbock residents who can't find a place to shoot. As I said, it's not as easy as you may think here. I'm guessing that there isn't much money to be made in running a public range, or somebody here would have opened a new one by now. And there isn't much land available around here that would be suitable that would be 1. far enough from the rapidly-expanding urban sprawl that is Lubbock, but close enough to be worthwhile, and 2. Available for sale. The only land in the area that appears to be for sale is being sold by farmers who can't afford to keep it after the city annexed it, re-zoned it commercial or residential, and started taxing the bejeezus out of it. Most of the farmers around here are planting thousands of acres, and every inch of arable land is covered with cotton or sorghum. I think the last thing any of these guys want is a buncha' city-slickers "trampling their crops and acting crazy" on their land. I highly doubt that they'd want to build anything that could be used for a range, and then be held liable for the actions of whatever yahoos showed up to use it, with or without permission. We're not all responsible gun-owners, no matter how much we'd like to think otherwise. I don't blame the local land-holders. BTW - the closest "deer-leases" are well over an hour to the east - all of the land here is under till.


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:45 am 
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That is a conundrum! Is there a Cabellas down there? Some of their stores have shooting ranges under the parking lots. A high dollar range will use spun concrete waste pipe and make tunnels down towards a berm on the other end. Every two sections is has about a 1/2 length left twixt em for daylight. The end is about 6-8 feet from the berm. There is no way for a bullet to get out. Even .50cal bullets. The reason? The first few pipes are much smaller and leave off a bench. Bullets travel in straight lines just like sight so from the shooters viewpoint the first tubes look like the only tubes. I spose if someone really tried to ricochet a bullet off the very end of the first tubes there might be the possibility that they could get one to exit :dunno: A spitzer point bullet wouldn't change direction very much at 20 yards out hitting something that parallels it. :dunno: Don't seem like it would anyway. I've shot through one of these setups and they are pretty awesome! The first few pipes are only about 16" diameter but grow to about 4 then 6 feet diameter. Not cheap (not cheap at all really with new pipe) and the pipe still needs to be semi-buried with sand or dirt.

Not certain building one could be made to be cost effective for all ranges but Alhmans in MN has one (maybe more) and the entire setup they have is really cool anyway.

http://www.ahlmans.com/index.html

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Sounds like a range that complicated would take some heavy funding. To get to the nearest Cabella's - drive east on 19th street (Texas hwy. 114) for 325 miles - on the left side of the road, just east of US hwy. 377. You can't miss it. Gander Mountain and Academy Sports have stores in Lubbock, but don't hold a candle to Cabella's. Maybe I'll get a chance to visit when I make that 325 mile drive next week to spend Christmas with the kids. I really would like to find out if that SKS I've had for 20 years actually shoots...

I think a range could be started here, but It would require more cash than I have available. I also think memberships would have to be sold.


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:07 am 
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Call me a creeper if you want, bit I did the google maps thing with that little guy where you can get down to street level. I went on a little tour of Lubbock. That whole place is flat!! I thought the plains of South Dakota were flat - they're not compared to Lubbock!! All kinds of room in Texas, it looks like...
It sure looks like to me that some land owner out there would be a shooting enthusiast. Here, we have an outdoor shooting range that is on a local farmer/rancher's land. We have "The Bad River Sportsman Club" who's members take care of it and keep it cleaned up and maintained. It has 100, 200, and 300 yard targets and a place for the shotgunner's to shoot clays.
Like most clubs, there really are about 3 or 4 guys who basically ram-rod the club. They have a couple of "fund-raisers" every year at the local bar like the "wild game feed" where they serve all kinds of wild game and fish that people donate. They raffle off a rifle too. But it's all done to keep our shooting range in shape.
A couple years ago they bought 3 "Bullet Bunkers" http://thebulletbunker.com/Products.html which are pretty cool. They used to have to rebuild the place where everyone hung targets every year. They even built a wall out of railroad ties and it ended up with a huge hole shot thru it. Those Bullet Bunkers are nice! rubber front & filled with sand. When they get shot up, you can rebuild it back to new.
Of course there is always a few idiots around. Just recently, some moron took a shot at one with a .50 caliber and it has a big "out-ty" on the backside of it now. :roll:
I guess what I'm saying in this long-winded, way-too-long post is: It's worth a shot! (pardon the pun) Run an ad in the local paper. "Local shooter's looking to work with a land owner to establish an outdoor shooting range". See if anyone responds. You never know!! If there are any gun clubs around, you can ask if they would be interested in helping. Probably do that first and if a land owner responds to the ad, then you could say "this gun club will maintain and take care of the range". A few phone calls would probably be all it takes to see if a gun club would be interested. You could always start a 'Sportsman Club" of your own. You and a few friends and hang a few flyers at the LGS. LGS would like it as it might pump up some business for them.
Anyway, I'll shut-up. I just feel bad cuz you have no place to shoot. You can't be the only one in Lubbock that wants a shooting range!! :doublegun:

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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:04 am 
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We have a local radio host who is rather conservative and always talking about guns and self-defense (http://prattontexas.com/), but I've never heard HIM mention anything about trying to open a range in the area (he's a big Sierra Club booster, too). Maybe no one around here is interested in taking on the liability for building and operating a range. Maybe no one thinks there would be enough support in the community to support a range...


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:53 am 
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pvsinger wrote:
We have a local radio host who is rather conservative and always talking about guns and self-defense (http://prattontexas.com/), but I've never heard HIM mention anything about trying to open a range in the area (he's a big Sierra Club booster, too). Maybe no one around here is interested in taking on the liability for building and operating a range. Maybe no one thinks there would be enough support in the community to support a range...


Actually I'm not sure there is liability at an open gun range. The local range here, (not local for me however) is in a county park. It is well maintained but has no range officer, few rules, and nice benches. There is a range for members only about four miles from me in some waste land between so rail tracks and a highway viaduct over the tracks. But it's populated by the local good ol boys and I'm not too fond of most of em. These are same ones that poach all summer and most of the winter all with the well wishes of the park ranger; he is a member too. :groan:

So, when I started getting into guns and especially pistol shooting I just went in the back and cleaned out an area next to the hundred year old dump that also needs cleaning out. And this what it looks like a couple weeks ago before it snowed
It's not much, it's not level, and it doesn't have any bench yet but it's 50 yards out my door and it's where I can shoot anything I own. :)

Image

Two years ago I could barely get into this spot on foot it was so tangled, but everything was seriously tangled up after we had a 100mph winds come form the right straight from the north across the hay field and busted up all the trees really bad. That wind snapped trees off twenty feet in the air where they were 18" diameter. Everything back here was mess since then... I didn't need the space so it sat for over eight years like that until I decided I wanted and needed this space now. I've burned tons of trees in the last few years. I had one pile of trees that was so big it melted the snow sixty feet away from the flames and the flames were about 100 feet tall judging by how high they went over the tops of the existing trees from down the road. :whistle: That didn't last long though, about ten minutes at that size. :wow: Any longer I would have been worried.

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:17 pm 
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You have trees in your county park? Most "county parks" (https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&q ... =0CIwBEMgT) here are no more than waysides, or are in built-up areas (or in the city limits) where most of the neighbors probably wouldn't appreciate ricochets whizzing around their homes. As I said, 99% of the land here is in private hands, and nobody's in any hurry to volunteer any of that land for a range.

When I lived in Wisconsin, we used to shoot out in the yard, since there was a hill with no houses behind to the NW. Now there is a house on top of that hill. We also used to shoot on state park land, in an old gravel quarry - it's now posted "no shooting" by the Wisconsin DNR. There was also the local sportsman's club - purposely located on the edge of a large swamp so there'd be no complaints - then the folks running the club started demanding that all members "volunteer" 40 hours/year in addition to paying your annual dues.

Here (on the "caprock") there are no state parks, gravel quarries, publicly owned woodlots, or swamps. Anything here that might be "developed" as a range is fenced and gated. Texas has some very good laws with regards to tresspassing, "stand your ground" or "castle" laws. I've been scrutinized by local farmers for merely stepping off the road to photograph abandoned houses. Locals here are very friendly, but have no patience with tresspassers for any reason (and I don't blame them).


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:12 am 
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pvsinger wrote:
You have trees in your county park? Most "county parks" (https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&q ... =0CIwBEMgT) here are no more than waysides, or are in built-up areas (or in the city limits) where most of the neighbors probably wouldn't appreciate ricochets whizzing around their homes. As I said, 99% of the land here is in private hands, and nobody's in any hurry to volunteer any of that land for a range.

When I lived in Wisconsin, we used to shoot out in the yard, since there was a hill with no houses behind to the NW. Now there is a house on top of that hill. We also used to shoot on state park land, in an old gravel quarry - it's now posted "no shooting" by the Wisconsin DNR. There was also the local sportsman's club - purposely located on the edge of a large swamp so there'd be no complaints - then the folks running the club started demanding that all members "volunteer" 40 hours/year in addition to paying your annual dues.

Here (on the "caprock") there are no state parks, gravel quarries, publicly owned woodlots, or swamps. Anything here that might be "developed" as a range is fenced and gated. Texas has some very good laws with regards to tresspassing, "stand your ground" or "castle" laws. I've been scrutinized by local farmers for merely stepping off the road to photograph abandoned houses. Locals here are very friendly, but have no patience with tresspassers for any reason (and I don't blame them).



Hmmm.... funny how our world has changed isn't it? :groan: Nobody trusts anybody, land and money are both still more important than a human beings life. Waste property is guarded viciously. and that's only because trespassers, if they get hurt during trespassing, can sue the owner of the land for not having hazards clearly marked. (it's true here, don't know about there)

But the funniest thing about your post? I have always heard there is no bad place to live in Texas. From your description I think prison would be a good comparison. :shock: :whistle: :mrgreen:

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:08 am 
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"Texas - It's a whole 'nother country"...Other than a 40 or 50 mile radius around Fort Hood, there is really no bad place to live in Texas. The South Plains area is an exceptional case. It's not desert or range land like El Paso to Abilene and south from there. It's not wooded or hilly like East Texas, the hill country, or the Houston area. It's not lakes and oak forest like the DFW area. It is flat prairie land with no natural lakes (and only a few small man-made ones to hold the <18" annual rainfall), thought to be worthless until underground water was found (and now regulated - but that's another story), and the windmill enabled farming and ranching. It was actually one of the very last explored areas of the continental US. Think Dust Bowl (the dust storms, while not as bad as movies I've seen of the 1930's, are Epic).

Many young people leave here for "better opportunities", as there is no industry to speak of. Lubbock is a huge farm town - the largest employers are Texas Tech University and 2 major hospitals. Everybody else who lives here supports either farmers and ranchers, or Tech and the hospitals.

It is a nice place to live - the friendliest people on average that I've ever met - polite, too. I've only really gotten interested in shooting again over the last few months. While I'd like to shoot the 12 Ga. I just bought, or my SKS, I'll settle for my (fun to shoot) 995 at the local indoor pistol range. It's a 10-minute drive, the folks there are nice as long as they can tell that you know how to handle a weapon, and I won't have to wear myself out trying to talk a nearby farmer into taking on a possible headache for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:31 am 
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I'm only familiar with the eastern half of Texas. San Antonio for basic, north to Shepard for tech school and east to Barksdale for the remainder of my time in Louisiana. Had a lot of good times on Shepard. The saying was Nebraska blew in during the week and blew back on the weekends. Something like that. There were some mighty horrendous dust storms when I was there. Walk two blocks during one and you might as well have rolled in a pile of red flour given the sweat and all. Me and a buddy had a female colonel stop us during one because we didn't salute her. We both said at the same time out incredulity "WTF! You crazy!???" and left. We could barely breath and she wanted us to salute?? We didn't even see her until she was about a foot in front of us. :twisted:

Ahh old times! I liked Texas though, visited Hippy Hollow hoping to see Willy but didn't see anyone we recognized. :dunno:

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:17 am 
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I've actually spent a decent amount of time in Texas.


Brownsville was my favorite -- 110F and rain! You don't even get that in Arizona.

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 Post subject: Re: They closed the range!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:51 pm 
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ampersand wrote:
I've actually spent a decent amount of time in Texas.


Brownsville was my favorite -- 110F and rain! You don't even get that in Arizona.


!!)* with humidity? Who would want that? :shock:

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“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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