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 Post subject: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:34 pm 
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So I hit the range today to pop my reload cherry. I loaded 10 rounds of once fired Remington UMC .40 s&w brass with magnum small rifle primers, 5.5 gr of Hodgdon Longshot, and topped em with 165 gr FMJTC's from Winchester. I was a bit anxious about firing them seeing as the loading data for carbines is sporadic on the web, at best. Needless to say, I got over it and wished I had loaded 90 more...

Anyway, here's a picture of how they performed.

Image

10 shot groups of factory Remington UMC on the top and bottom bull. Reloads in the middle. In case you can't read the measurements, top bull = 2 1/2", middle = 2 9/16", bottom = 2 3/16

The felt recoil was much smoother than the UMC's. Some people claim the report of Longshot packed cartridges are much louder than other powder/factory rounds, but the way it seemed to me, my reloads were on the quiet side. The 4095 puts a hush on all factory ammo I've run through it when put beside a 3"-5" pistol, but I digress.

I'm planning to reduce the powder charge a bit to see what it likes, but I'll save that discussion for the Reloading section :hehlol:

Keep those shovels sharp all you East Coasters.

~ DavieJones ~

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“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.”
~Plato


I don't own a gun to look for, or start a fight. I own a gun to finish a fight I never wanted to be in.

"Never give up your guns... Gun control is about power and total power over the people."- Stanislav Mishin(disarmed Russian journalist)
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/01/Disarmed-Russian-Columnist-Warns-Americans-Never-Give-Up-Your-Guns

Politics = Poly[more than usual; excessive; abnormal] + ticks[blood sucking parasite]

"To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens" - Adolf Hitler 1933


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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading! Very impressive groups, how far were you from the target?

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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:29 pm 
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I believe your load is a bit on the light side by spec, and for accuracy.
From the Hodgdon site on LongShot with 165 gn ( I'm reading your spec to be "full metal jacket truncated cone". From the Hodgdon site I'd use the Berb Flatpint data
165 GR. BERB FP Longshot .400" 1.125" 6.9 1091 24,500 PSI 7.8 1199 32,300 PSI

This showing the beginning range at 6.9 grains and going up to 7.8 with a 165 gn bullet.
This says your test loads did not have enough powder to pressure up the round for efficient combustion.
Hence most of "feeling smoother", and not being loud. Did you get any sooting on side of brass?

You mentioned " I was a bit anxious about firing them seeing as the loading data for carbines is sporadic on the web, at best".
I don't understand this as it shouldn't be a "carbine specific " load. .40 cal is .40cal. Not one made for pistols and one for carbines.

Using LongShot powder, get the data from the horses mouth. The Hodgdon site, not others.

Bottom line, you need to hotten that load a bit to get it to perform as designed.

So, did you get soot on your brass?

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"Is my HP my favorite gun? No... Is it the BEST value? Very likely. Will it work when you need it to go bang? I'd bet my life on it."
Attributed to Ex and he'll take credit for anything he can get!

"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing."
Attributed to Edmund Burke, though it's source cannot be proven.

"Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything"
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Sorry to see you go Dean. Never enough time and it makes
us all realize just what being mortal is. You have been a true friend to me
and I will miss you every day.



"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretence of taking care of
them."

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not having bricks tied to your dogs collar.

http://linuxmint.com

The shin bone is a device for finding furniture in a dark room.

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Last edited by Ex_ISP on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Walt, those were shot from 25 yds out. The furthest I can put em at my LGS sadly... :groan:

Come mid March though, they'll be opening a 50 yd and 75 yd rifle range that I will be first in line for! :party: :minigun:

Ex_ISP, I sure as poop did get soot on my brass. The reason the load was so light is because I primed them with magnums small rifle primers. Your reading of my spec is correct. They were full metal jacket truncated cones.

I intend to bump the load up to Hodgdons minimum recommended and see what happens. I loaded it light because my studies showed SRP and their magnum counterparts gave a kick in the form of pressure, so I was wary of over-pressure. I was also aware of under-pressure loads and the hazard they present, hence my nervousness prior to shooting.

Thanks for the input gents! I shall keep reporting in with good news and full sets of digits!

~ DavieJones ~

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“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.”
~Plato


I don't own a gun to look for, or start a fight. I own a gun to finish a fight I never wanted to be in.

"Never give up your guns... Gun control is about power and total power over the people."- Stanislav Mishin(disarmed Russian journalist)
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/01/Disarmed-Russian-Columnist-Warns-Americans-Never-Give-Up-Your-Guns

Politics = Poly[more than usual; excessive; abnormal] + ticks[blood sucking parasite]

"To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens" - Adolf Hitler 1933


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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:24 am 
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>The reason the load was so light is because I primed them with magnums small rifle primers. Your reading of my spec is correct.

I understand completely. I have never used mag primers in place of standard, bu now I understand. If you are sooting the brass though, it generally shows inadequate pressure to seal the case in the chamber. They need to come up a bit. But Walt pointed out, check EACH time for signs of overpressure.

It is a grey documented area for obvious reasons. Proceed with care!

_________________
"Is my HP my favorite gun? No... Is it the BEST value? Very likely. Will it work when you need it to go bang? I'd bet my life on it."
Attributed to Ex and he'll take credit for anything he can get!

"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing."
Attributed to Edmund Burke, though it's source cannot be proven.

"Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything"
Alexander Hamilton

Sorry to see you go Dean. Never enough time and it makes
us all realize just what being mortal is. You have been a true friend to me
and I will miss you every day.



"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretence of taking care of
them."

Thomas Jefferson

Not having Windows on your computer is like
not having bricks tied to your dogs collar.

http://linuxmint.com

The shin bone is a device for finding furniture in a dark room.

If the mentally deficient are not allowed to own guns then why should they be allowed to make gun laws?


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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Ex_ISP wrote:
It is a grey documented area for obvious reasons.


Exactly the reason I really didn't know where to start in regards to charge size. I'm starting to think I can load some at manufacturer minimums and see performance more like 80% of max loads. Of course, that's all speculation til I try it out. I'll be working the loads up to that point so as to avoid any dangers that may rear their head.

~ DavieJones ~

_________________
Image

“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.”
~Plato


I don't own a gun to look for, or start a fight. I own a gun to finish a fight I never wanted to be in.

"Never give up your guns... Gun control is about power and total power over the people."- Stanislav Mishin(disarmed Russian journalist)
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/01/Disarmed-Russian-Columnist-Warns-Americans-Never-Give-Up-Your-Guns

Politics = Poly[more than usual; excessive; abnormal] + ticks[blood sucking parasite]

"To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens" - Adolf Hitler 1933


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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:50 pm 
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I think the part of using mag primers in non-mag loads is that the spike delivered by the primer
can cause abnormal conditions in igniting powder as it burns under pressure. The thing that comforts me in this
is the Longshot powder. If you were building these rounds with Titegroup, I'd be terrified for you. The
Longshot is quite a bit slower and thus, less affected by the hot primer.

Bottom line, just know that in certain circumstances x grns might work fine but x.1 grns might be
a reactive load and dangerous.

Please keep us posted as you work this recipe up a bit. Very interested in what you find. Use Longshot
myself for most rounds now.

_________________
"Is my HP my favorite gun? No... Is it the BEST value? Very likely. Will it work when you need it to go bang? I'd bet my life on it."
Attributed to Ex and he'll take credit for anything he can get!

"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing."
Attributed to Edmund Burke, though it's source cannot be proven.

"Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything"
Alexander Hamilton

Sorry to see you go Dean. Never enough time and it makes
us all realize just what being mortal is. You have been a true friend to me
and I will miss you every day.



"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretence of taking care of
them."

Thomas Jefferson

Not having Windows on your computer is like
not having bricks tied to your dogs collar.

http://linuxmint.com

The shin bone is a device for finding furniture in a dark room.

If the mentally deficient are not allowed to own guns then why should they be allowed to make gun laws?


Last edited by Ex_ISP on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:12 am
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So I hit the range today to test some new loads and my new piece(Glock 22 gen 2). I didn't bring the carbine due to constraints on time :groan:

The loads I used were as follows:

Unfired Winchester brass
CCI #550 magnum SRP
~6.5 gr Longshot
165 gr Winchester FMJTC

as well as

Unfired Winchester brass
CCI #550 magnum SRP
~6.5 gr Longshot
180 gr Winchester JHP

I had some Fiocchi 165 gr FMJTC to compare my loads with as well as some Winchester 180 gr JHP for first ever hollow tip loads. Sadly, the Glock proved to have a firing pin too weak for the harder, small rifle primers. One out of four of the first five reloads actually fired. The others did not. I picked the few out that had very light strikes and tried them again. One out of three fired. The others are due for re-processing. Seems I won't be shooting reloads from the G22 til I can get my hands on some small pistol primers(good luck with that).

In regards to how the reloads fired, I must say they went off beautifully. The 165 gr loads had some sooting on the brass, but otherwise felt comparable to the factory Fiocchi rounds, although they exhibited much less muzzle flip. The 180 gr seemed to be juuuuuuust right. Zero signs of sooting and a much easier feel on the gun compared to the factory rounds. I will be hitting the range again next weekend to run these same loads through the carbine and will report back with results.

I will post pictures of groups and the new toy in a little while! Off to get my spawn for the time being.

~DavieJones~

_________________
Image

“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.”
~Plato


I don't own a gun to look for, or start a fight. I own a gun to finish a fight I never wanted to be in.

"Never give up your guns... Gun control is about power and total power over the people."- Stanislav Mishin(disarmed Russian journalist)
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/01/Disarmed-Russian-Columnist-Warns-Americans-Never-Give-Up-Your-Guns

Politics = Poly[more than usual; excessive; abnormal] + ticks[blood sucking parasite]

"To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens" - Adolf Hitler 1933


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 Post subject: Re: 4095 and reloads
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Sweet! Anxious to hear results!

Longshot story. Went out last time (3 weeks ago) and took my gen2 g22 and a friend with his sr.40 Ruger. The rounds performed well in
both pistols. There was however, a major difference in cleanliness. About 75 rounds in my g22 and first patch came out clean! In the Ruger,
after only 8 or 10 rounds, you could see powder flakes in the barrel and soot on all the casings. Casings from the g22 had zero soot.

Conclusion/assumption, is that the Ruger has a slightly looser chamber and lower pressure rounds weren't expanding the brass enough to seal.

Rounds were built with Zero 180 gn JHP with CCI spp over 7.2 gns Longshot (about mid range on the load 6.5-8.0).

Specificaly built some test rounds for the Ruger today. 165 gn JHPs w/Longshot. Factory gives range 7.3-7.8. Made (for the Ruger that has
the sooting issue) 2 rds w/7.4 gns and a bunch at 7.7 gns.

We will test these next Sat with a chrono and see where they really are. Post results when I get them.

_________________
"Is my HP my favorite gun? No... Is it the BEST value? Very likely. Will it work when you need it to go bang? I'd bet my life on it."
Attributed to Ex and he'll take credit for anything he can get!

"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing."
Attributed to Edmund Burke, though it's source cannot be proven.

"Those who stand for nothing, fall for anything"
Alexander Hamilton

Sorry to see you go Dean. Never enough time and it makes
us all realize just what being mortal is. You have been a true friend to me
and I will miss you every day.



"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretence of taking care of
them."

Thomas Jefferson

Not having Windows on your computer is like
not having bricks tied to your dogs collar.

http://linuxmint.com

The shin bone is a device for finding furniture in a dark room.

If the mentally deficient are not allowed to own guns then why should they be allowed to make gun laws?


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