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Here's an unusual one for you...
http://hipointtalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15494
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Author:  Ex_ISP [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Here's an unusual one for you...

How many are familiar with this odd looking cartridge?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lebel_8mm_round.jpg

Image

Author:  Ex_ISP [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

I have one of these (an old Mauser) coming AND a box of ammo for it!

Author:  ampersand [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

That's the granddaddy of all smokeless powder cartridges.

The French were the first to adopt smokeless powder and everybody else scrambled to follow. Just one of the many European arms races.

Author:  ampersand [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

If you're looking for ammo you may find this interesting:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=751296
Ex_ISP wrote:
I have one of these (an old Mauser) coming AND a box of ammo for it!

Author:  Ex_ISP [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

ampersand wrote:
If you're looking for ammo you may find this interesting:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=751296
Ex_ISP wrote:
I have one of these (an old Mauser) coming AND a box of ammo for it!


Funny you mention the ammo. Google found me very little on this round. Duckduckgo.com found me the wiki,
a few dozen ammo sources for it etc.

I have heard said that the 1900s Mauser that shot this round was one where the french would shoot two rounds
at the enemy and then throw the rifle at them and run... But then I digress :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sure is an odd looking case. And for free I can't say no to a working piece of history and rounds for it :dunno:

Author:  ampersand [ Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

The history of firearms is fascinating -- I'm looking forward to your shooting impression of this one.

Oh yeah ... :worthless:

Author:  ajole [ Wed May 01, 2013 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

Ex_ISP wrote:
Sure is an odd looking case. And for free I can't say no to a working piece of history and rounds for it :dunno:


You are getting a Lebel for free? :shock:

And by the way...they are NOT Mausers. Tube magazine, if the tube were easier to reload, they'd have been a great rifle. But it wasn't easy, and they were just an interesting transitional rifle.

Author:  verkalak [ Wed May 01, 2013 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

ampersand wrote:
That's the granddaddy of all smokeless powder cartridges.

The French were the first to adopt smokeless powder and everybody else scrambled to follow. Just one of the many European arms races.



French army surplus is the best to get ahold of. They have never been fired and only dropped once. :roflol:

Author:  Randy [ Wed May 01, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

verkalak wrote:
ampersand wrote:
That's the granddaddy of all smokeless powder cartridges.

The French were the first to adopt smokeless powder and everybody else scrambled to follow. Just one of the many European arms races.



French army surplus is the best to get ahold of. They have never been fired and only dropped once. :roflol:


Of course they may also have some smelly yellow or brown stains on the stocks....

Author:  Ex_ISP [ Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

ajole wrote:
Ex_ISP wrote:
Sure is an odd looking case. And for free I can't say no to a working piece of history and rounds for it :dunno:


You are getting a Lebel for free? :shock:

And by the way...they are NOT Mausers. Tube magazine, if the tube were easier to reload, they'd have been a great rifle. But it wasn't easy, and they were just an interesting transitional rifle.


Was my Uncles.. a collectable that he brought back to the states after WWII. Bro says it's a Mauser marked rifle chambered (stock?) in the Lebel cartridge.

Author:  Ex_ISP [ Wed May 01, 2013 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

ampersand wrote:
The history of firearms is fascinating -- I'm looking forward to your shooting impression of this one.

Oh yeah ... :worthless:


I will have it Sat afternoon and post pics (with my crummy camera) post haste!

Author:  ajole [ Thu May 02, 2013 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

Ex_ISP wrote:

I will have it Sat afternoon and post pics (with my crummy camera) post haste!


Looking forward to that!

Author:  ptrthgr8 [ Fri May 03, 2013 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

No Mauser from that time period would have been originally chambered in 8mm Lebel. At least not for anything other than some weird gov't testing deal. Certainly nothing would have been issued or widely produced in an enemy's cartridge. All the Mausers around that time period were typically chambered in the 7.9x57mm S-Patrone (adopted in 1905) or, if prior to that, in for the older Patrone 88. Prior to that they would have been chambered in the original 11mm Mauser blackpowder cartridge (i.e. as used in the Model 1871 Mauser). It's possible it was rechambered commercially or by a previous owner, but it almost certainly wouldn't have left the factory like that.

Looking forward to seeing the pics. I went through a black powder cartridge run this past winter, so now I have a French Mle. 1866/74 (11x59R Gras), German Mauser Model 1871 Karbine (11x60R), German Mauser Model 1871/84 rifle (11x60R), US Springfield Model 1884 Trapdoor (.45-70 Gov't), and a Remington Rolling Block #1 (.43 Spanish)... and none have been shot yet. Need to get to the range soon to make lots of black powder smoke!

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

Author:  ptrthgr8 [ Fri May 03, 2013 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

ajole wrote:
And by the way...they are NOT Mausers. Tube magazine, if the tube were easier to reload, they'd have been a great rifle. But it wasn't easy, and they were just an interesting transitional rifle.


Which isn't to say that the Germans didn't use tubular magazines. The original Mauser Model 1871 Infanterie Gewehr was a single shot rifle chambered in the rimmed 11x60mm black powder cartridge. That rifle served the Germans rather well for quite some time. That rifle received an update in 1884 and became known as the Model 1871/84 Infranterie Gewehr; the most obvious update was the inclusion of an 8 round tubular magazine. The Model 1871/84 then soldiered on for a few more years until the Mauser brothers' Model 1888 Commission rifle was adopted (which was inspired by the French Model 1886 Lebel rifle), which still included the tubular magazine design.

The Mauser brothers didn't get off the tubular magazine idea until the early 1890s. There were a series of rifles (most notably the Model 1893 and Model 1896), that launched the more familiar box magazine design - and then culminated in the Model 1898... and the rest is history. So, really, the tubular magazine was used for 15-20 years by the Germans and others. I think the tubular design made more sense for the old-timey black powder cartridges - those suckers were pretty fat (~11mm or so for most), so stacking them under the bolt didn't make much sense. They also didn't really need to worry about bullet tips detonating primers in the tubes since they used those big, fat, slow, rounded lead bullets at the time. When the bullets started getting more pointy (i.e. with the Lebel and Patrone-S), they had to think of something else. And by that time the smokeless powder cartridges allowed for smaller projectiles to be used and, therefore, smaller diameter cases, so it would be easier to stack rounds on top of each other in a box magazine.

The later quarter of the 19th Century was an amazing time for firearms tech. :)

Cheers,

~ Greg ~

Author:  Phat Mike [ Fri May 03, 2013 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Here's an unusual one for you...

Paul Mauser created two different variations of the same rifle, one with a stock strengthened with a barrel shroud and a traditional design following the layout of the 71 series in hope he might be able to overturn the commission's decision, or at least sell his design to the Kingdom of Bavaria, which adopted its own arms. The two rifles became known as the 89 Belgian (with a barrel shroud) and the 91 Argentine (with a 71 layout) Mausers, identical in their function and feed system. The main features were the ability to use stripper clips to feed the magazine (a revolution in rate of fire), and its rimless cartridge (7.65 Argentine), advanced for the time.

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