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 Post subject: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:10 pm 
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I walked out into the garage with this last night:
Image

I had one complete upper I had to change the hand-guard on.
I had a plastic bag I put a bunch of stuff in.
And that leather "Man-Purse" Tolly made for me has been one of the handiest things I've owned.
I had it packed with stuff too - and can throw it over my shoulder and go.


This is the "unpacked" picture:
Image

One complete upper, 2 barrels, 2 uppers, 2 flash-hiders, 3 aluminum key-mod hand-rails, 3 gas-blocks and gas-tubes, 3 different brands of BCG's and a some tools for assembling uppers.
I have 3 uppers to assemble - 2 with 15" rails and one with a 12" rail.
It kinda sucks that I have to take one apart to do it.
I had one complete upper on-hand, but it had the plastic hand-guard.
I had to change that one out and put an aluminum hand-rail on it.


Rock River Arms had a sale - I bought 2 assembled uppers from them and 3 BCG's
Image

As far as how the Rock River uppers are made and look compared to my favorite manufacturer of AR parts - Anderson Mfg.
I couldn't see a damn bit of difference except for one thing: RRA uppers have the numbers printed on the picatinny rail along with "RRA" on top.
On sale - the RRA uppers were $45 more expensive each compared to Anderson.
The BCG's from RRA were only about $10 apiece more expensive.
I also bought a complete lower from RRA's ($60 more expensive than Anderson) and a couple of 6-positions stocks - which were pretty reasonable!!

Why didn't I buy from Anderson? They've been out of uppers and lowers for months... I've never seen anything like it!! :shock:
That's why I had a complete Anderson upper - that's the only way I could get an upper was to buy it complete...

Of course - I looked just now - and those SOB's have some complete lowers - still out of BCG's & black 6-position stocks though...

Enough of that - lets get on with it!!


The 1st thing I wanted to work on was that little tiny-assed roll pin that holds the gas-tube in the gas-block.
The shape of the gas-block makes it a real bitch to get that roll pin in there.
I have both sets of roll-pin punches - the "female" ones where the roll-pins fits inside the end of the punch. They are the only way to go when installing a roll pin!!
And I have the other set - the ones with a little "bump" on the end that stay centered on the toll pin. They're good for driving those roll pins in all the way.


Anyway - I decided I'd try to make something to hold that gas-block while i beat that dinky roll-pin in...
And I came up with this:
Image

I too a 1" wood drill bit and drilled 3 overlapping holes in a piece of 2x4 - about 3/8" deep.


And the gas-block laid in the "groove" I drilled like this:
Image

It sit's in there just about perfect!! :great:

I put a little chamfer on one end of that roll pin and "tapped" them in the gas block.
The wood holder worked pretty good - but it did "smoosh" the wood down a bit on the one side - 2x4 is pretty soft!!

Took the new upper apart:
Image

It has a gas block that will not work with the "slim" aluminum hand-guards I'm using. )-:
I'll save the parts off this upper (gas-block and tube, plastic hand-guard and barrel nut) and use them on another build.
Unless one of you guys want to buy this stuff from me!! This is the 2nd complete upper I've save these parts off of.

This shows the thick barrel nut wrench (right side) put on the barrel nut.
I also put some extra long roll pins through the wrench (it has the holes in it already) and all the way in the barrel nut.
Those long roll pins fit though both sides of the nut that has holes.
Image

You can see the original "pins" welded on the wrench reach about 1/2 way across the "gap" in the nut.
It might be overkill with those long roll pins - but those barrel nuts are aluminum and soft and easy to ruin if you're not careful!!!

Here, I have the nut "almost there" - I have a rod I bought that has to fit thought the nut and into the upper - to make sure they're aligned so the gas tube fits through.
Image

I have to go just a "little bit tighter" until that shiny rod fit through and it all aligned good. :D
You can see the shiny rod on top goes clear through the barrel nut and is against the upper.

I have this device too:
Image

It fits inside the upper and the rod fits through the upper and then through the barrel nut.
It does the same as the other rod - it just fits through from the opposite direction.
I like the simple rod-through-the-barrel-nut better though.

Next I screwed the hand-guard on the nut and got the "monolithic top rail" aligned and tightened it all up.
The gas-block and tube can not be installed to do it this way.
I pre-install the gas-block and tube and align it - then mark it with a pencil and take it back off.
Then I put the hand-rail on and then slide the gas-block and tube up through the hand-rail.
Image

That copper tube is what I use to push the gas block onto the barrel towards the barrel nut.
The tricky part is getting the gas tube through the barrel nut and upper with the hand-rail covering everything.

Then I can tighten the gas-block through the underside of the hand-rail:
Image

Ta-Da!!! One complete upper with a 15" aluminum key-mod hand-rail!!
Image

There are 2 ways to do this - I thought this way might be quicker.
I got it to work - but it was kind of a bitch to get that gas tube through there


After that, I took the aluminum hand-rail apart like you're "supposed" to... :D
Image

And that did work much better - I don't know why I always think I can find a "better way" to do things!!

Whew!! Several hours later - we have 3 complete uppers!! Two 15's" rails and one 12" rail.
Image

It was about 11;30 when I made it back into the house.

Well, what a long-assed post this is!!
I hope you guys like it and can understand it ok.

I'm thinking that the more people that know how an AR rifle is made the better.
It's no wonder it's the #1 rifle "platform" in America - You can do so many different things with them!!! :cool:

Thanks for reading!! :D

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No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:26 am 
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That is one thing I will give the AR platform over the AK, the AK you need specialized tools and knowledge to make, and AR can be made by a trained monkey. Hell, even I can put one together LOL

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NEW TO FIREARMS? PLEASE VISIT
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This forum is only as good as YOU make it. Lets all work together and have a forum we can be proud of! But lets not forget to have FUN while we do it!

Comments, suggestions and opinions are always welcome. If I can help, I will.

Happy shooting Dave Gillespie - (Sharp Shooter), you will be missed and remembered.

We will miss you Jerry Roberts - (woodyubet), you will not be forgotten.

We are better off from having known you Dean Stephens -(ampersand) It wont be the same around here without you.

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A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:32 am 
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I always enjoy these posts.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:46 pm 
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Dude...seriously, you need to holler at me when you're looking for parts. I've got a local (sorta, he's up where we moved from but he ships) that quoted me $103 for a stripped upper and Anderson lower, since you're an 01 you could have had it shipped straight to you. Primary Arms has stripped Anderson lowers for $49.99 limit 10. And Fatboy Tactical has 10 packs for $400...

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"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Ive had several dealings with Fatboy Tactical, Phat Mike has made it up to their shop to meet them... I recommend them as good people to do business with.

_________________
GUNS FOR SALE!!!!
P & C Firearms


NEW TO FIREARMS? PLEASE VISIT
Hi Point Safety Tips
and
More Safety Links

This forum is only as good as YOU make it. Lets all work together and have a forum we can be proud of! But lets not forget to have FUN while we do it!

Comments, suggestions and opinions are always welcome. If I can help, I will.

Happy shooting Dave Gillespie - (Sharp Shooter), you will be missed and remembered.

We will miss you Jerry Roberts - (woodyubet), you will not be forgotten.

We are better off from having known you Dean Stephens -(ampersand) It wont be the same around here without you.

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A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:57 am 
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waltham41 wrote:
That is one thing I will give the AR platform over the AK, the AK you need specialized tools and knowledge to make, and AR can be made by a trained monkey. Hell, even I can put one together LOL

Geez - That isn't a very nice thing to say about me Walt!!! :shock:


mogunner wrote:
Dude...seriously, you need to holler at me when you're looking for parts. I've got a local (sorta, he's up where we moved from but he ships) that quoted me $103 for a stripped upper and Anderson lower, since you're an 01 you could have had it shipped straight to you. Primary Arms has stripped Anderson lowers for $49.99 limit 10. And Fatboy Tactical has 10 packs for $400...

I did get quite a bit more money for the ones with the RRA parts... (-:

_________________
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Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Well, I would certainly hope so! You shouldn't have a practice of losing money on your business deals, for sure!

I stopped in at one of the gun shops in Poplar Bluff today to see if they had gotten any small pistol primers in (they had, CCI, at $39.99 for 1k) and asked if they could get any Anderson stripped lowers, they told me they usually stocked them but hadn't been able to get any for a couple of months. I swear...if I didn't have to deal with all the accounting BS of running an actual business, I'd get my 01 and set up shop, these guys hereabouts are clueless.

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"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/blrobinso ... geOffset=2
My fantasy novels and C&R Bound Book

http://blrobinson.yolasite.com/
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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:10 pm 
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Mo - I usually buy complete lowers - because if I buy a stripped and assemble them I'm a "manufacturer" as defined by the rules.
I can put a stock on a complete lower or change a trigger - but that's about it.

I do buy stripped lowers to sell if I have to - There's very little money to be made on a stripped lower.
There's too many companies that buy 5,000 of them at once for a "volume" price and then sell them cheaper than I can buy them.

I make more than twice as much on a transfer of a lower as I do on selling a lower - and I only charge $10 for a transfer!!


This is something you guy might find interesting:

Image

It's a Franklin Armory Binary Firing System

http://franklin-armory.myshopify.com/co ... igger-pack

It fires when you pull the trigger and it fires when you release the trigger... :shock:
A fellow want's me to see if I can put one in his AR for him.

It looks pretty complicated!!
I'll let you know how it goes...

_________________
Schofield Gun Sales on FB

Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:08 pm
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IMHO that whole "Firearms manufacturer" section is way too ambiguous and open to interpretation. Since the lower is considered to BE a firearm by ATF's definition, then in my opinion all you're doing is adding parts to a firearm that already exists. And when I asked the ATF for an opinion all I ever get is a copy and paste of the regulation, NEVER an opinion that I could keep and use in the future. Talk about a useless organization. There's no variation on a 4473 for a stripped lower, a complete lower, or a complete firearm that I remember.

_________________
"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/blrobinso ... geOffset=2
My fantasy novels and C&R Bound Book

http://blrobinson.yolasite.com/
My writing website


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:08 pm
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Here's some Anderson complete lowers for $150. What I don't like is the stock on these, which is why I build from stripped lowers. I've gotten away from the stocks with the position release lever exposed on the bottom, I've had it bumped too many times and the stock has slid out of the position I wanted it in. Those Guntec ones that I bought from you are one the wife and my favorite shooters, then I went with the Rogers one that I showed you on Facebook on my CQ rifle. But they don't have any available where I bought that one in black, just the two shades of green and FDE.

https://22mods4all.com/en/ar-15/245644- ... eiver.html

Here's another sale running on complete lowers.

http://karrisguns.com/kg-ar15-complete- ... eiver.aspx

_________________
"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/blrobinso ... geOffset=2
My fantasy novels and C&R Bound Book

http://blrobinson.yolasite.com/
My writing website


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:10 am 
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The lower alone is put down on the 4473 as a receiver. The lower that comes assembled with an upper is logged in as either a pistol or rifle. If a 01FFL takes a lower receiver, puts an upper on it, and sells it as a rifle, he is manufacturing. And they can get your ass for it.

If it comes in as a receiver, I sell it as a receiver, even if the customer buys it with an upper. Its easier that way and less to explain when they do their inspection of your books.

_________________
GUNS FOR SALE!!!!
P & C Firearms


NEW TO FIREARMS? PLEASE VISIT
Hi Point Safety Tips
and
More Safety Links

This forum is only as good as YOU make it. Lets all work together and have a forum we can be proud of! But lets not forget to have FUN while we do it!

Comments, suggestions and opinions are always welcome. If I can help, I will.

Happy shooting Dave Gillespie - (Sharp Shooter), you will be missed and remembered.

We will miss you Jerry Roberts - (woodyubet), you will not be forgotten.

We are better off from having known you Dean Stephens -(ampersand) It wont be the same around here without you.

ImageImage
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:00 pm 
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waltham41 wrote:
The lower alone is put down on the 4473 as a receiver. The lower that comes assembled with an upper is logged in as either a pistol or rifle. If a 01FFL takes a lower receiver, puts an upper on it, and sells it as a rifle, he is manufacturing. And they can get your ass for it.

If it comes in as a receiver, I sell it as a receiver, even if the customer buys it with an upper. Its easier that way and less to explain when they do their inspection of your books.


And this is why I'll never get an 01 license. Easier to just do what I want as a "civilian"... :thinkin:

_________________
"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/blrobinso ... geOffset=2
My fantasy novels and C&R Bound Book

http://blrobinson.yolasite.com/
My writing website


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:50 pm 
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mogunner wrote:
waltham41 wrote:
The lower alone is put down on the 4473 as a receiver. The lower that comes assembled with an upper is logged in as either a pistol or rifle. If a 01FFL takes a lower receiver, puts an upper on it, and sells it as a rifle, he is manufacturing. And they can get your ass for it.

If it comes in as a receiver, I sell it as a receiver, even if the customer buys it with an upper. Its easier that way and less to explain when they do their inspection of your books.


And this is why I'll never get an 01 license. Easier to just do what I want as a "civilian"... :thinkin:


I agree, the license comes with its ups and downs for sure.

_________________
GUNS FOR SALE!!!!
P & C Firearms


NEW TO FIREARMS? PLEASE VISIT
Hi Point Safety Tips
and
More Safety Links

This forum is only as good as YOU make it. Lets all work together and have a forum we can be proud of! But lets not forget to have FUN while we do it!

Comments, suggestions and opinions are always welcome. If I can help, I will.

Happy shooting Dave Gillespie - (Sharp Shooter), you will be missed and remembered.

We will miss you Jerry Roberts - (woodyubet), you will not be forgotten.

We are better off from having known you Dean Stephens -(ampersand) It wont be the same around here without you.

ImageImage
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:08 pm
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I built a number of AR's, but not with the intention of selling...just always happened to see someone wanting to swap something else that I wanted for an AR...lol

_________________
"Oh bother," said Pooh, "I'm out of ammo!"

http://elby.yolasite.com/ Mosin sight tools

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/blrobinso ... geOffset=2
My fantasy novels and C&R Bound Book

http://blrobinson.yolasite.com/
My writing website


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 Post subject: Re: AR-15's - Gas Pains and Hand-Guard Happiness
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:59 am 
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Posts: 4772
Favorite Hi-Point: 45ACP
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Age: 49
waltham41 wrote:
mogunner wrote:
waltham41 wrote:
The lower alone is put down on the 4473 as a receiver. The lower that comes assembled with an upper is logged in as either a pistol or rifle. If a 01FFL takes a lower receiver, puts an upper on it, and sells it as a rifle, he is manufacturing. And they can get your ass for it.

If it comes in as a receiver, I sell it as a receiver, even if the customer buys it with an upper. Its easier that way and less to explain when they do their inspection of your books.


And this is why I'll never get an 01 license. Easier to just do what I want as a "civilian"... :thinkin:


I agree, the license comes with its ups and downs for sure.

It IS pretty crazy that a unlicensed person can do anything they want...
Buy whatever parts they want and put them together - and sell to whoever they want within their state...
And a dealer has to keep track of everything... But it's illegal for a dealer to do that!!
Doesn't make much sense...

And Yep - I usually always have complete uppers and lowers on-hand.
And the lowers are always in the book as "Multi-Cal" as Walt told me I should. :D
People usually buy one of each and that's how it's written on the invoice - 2 separate items.
When they walk out the door, they can pop the two pins in and have a complete rifle...

_________________
Schofield Gun Sales on FB

Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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