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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:51 pm 
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My wife always told the kids to "eat dirt". Meaning some scrapes and bruises aren't going to kill you. All 5 of them (4 are girls) have broken a bone or two.

All are still kicking and all 6 (soon 7) grandkids are learning the same lessons. Growing up in the 70s was different than it is now though.

Anyway, raise your kids how you see fit. I taught all of mine to shoot by 6 or 7.


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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:18 am 
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srtolly wrote:
... Growing up in the 70s was different than it is now though.

I agree, I did some growing in the 70's myself. Things are different now, but what I don't understand is, what is it that has changed so much? I mean, I know a lot has changed, but people are still people. Do we get progressively more evil, or do societies just get more unsafe the more "advanced" we become?

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Maybe I'm paranoid or seeing spooks but if you pay really close attention to the way people act and think these days you might see a rift in the middle.

On the one side there are the older folk, not old, just older, that have more or less sowed their oats, have no desire to rock the boat too badly, voice their opinions in an orderly manner, and have generally conformed to the present societal norms despite their protests to the contrary.

On the other side there is the MSM, politicians, colleges and universities, and highly (easily) influenced, peer pressured young folks that are trying to find out where or if they fit someplace in this society. This is the group that gets all the attention because they are the most active as a group.

There really isn't an age defined line in the sand however because people figure out how they fit at different rates in different geographical demographics.

Country folks generally find their fit earlier on, but as the size and concentration related to an area grows, so too does the age rise for a person trying to find out where they fit.

In some areas there is no possible way to fit in the mainstream or even close to it. These are the ones seen on the national news in bad way. Extremely few in number, the MSM makes them seem like they are taking over like zombies on apocalypse day.

Which brings us to the rest of the story.

Ever notice how the MSM never dredges up old facts from, or for, happy stories? But they will upset the earth to finding the smallest tidbit of dirt on an unhappy story? We all know why they do this. But I also believe we all know what the ramifications have been over time.

Your question clearly indicates you have noticed it; although you may not have correlated it. I'm not talking about the simple 'bad press equals more money' side of it. The implications on societies collective psyche is being impacted slowly but certainly. We are bombarded with an insane amount of bad news everyday but the "fair and balanced" news isn't really as far as I'm concerned.

I think the public is showing their anger at the wrong politicians; the real politicians are the news-people, the ones that have the influence over what they brainwash the people to think.

It's a fact that if a lie is told often enough, that even the most steadfast disbeliever will start questioning their beliefs. That is the foot in the door. When the foot is planted firmly the resistance dwindles by a like amount. It is nearly impossible to rally a disenfranchised minset so the damage has been done. This has been taking place for a hundred years so turning it around isn't going to happen overnight, if ever.

I see the only hope to fight back is to create a truly unbiased MSM news organization that people trust. One that does not exaggerate, embellish, dredge up the past, foresee the future, sensationalize, sanctify, or denigrate any occurrence, people, place or thing.

Someone, or some group, gets shot or falls off a cliff, the facts are; they got shot or they fell off the cliff, the lessor fact they were or weren't wearing body armor or a helmet or climbing gear has little to no relevance to the story except to sensationalize it. The minor fact they fell off a cliff three years ago in a different area or were involved with an organized labor dispute also has no relevance the way I see it.

But the MSM today has to dredge up the dirt, publish it with no substantiation, and simply say the parties involved "did not immediately return their phone calls" (which were likely placed at 3am on a Sunday morning). This little disclaimer absolves them legally of any wrongdoing in the event they misquoted, erred in their reporting, got names entirely wrong or simply didn't care enough to report reliably or accurately.

Hmmm, my soapbox seems to be getting tired. I'll give it a rest now. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:13 am 
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Randy wrote:
Maybe I'm paranoid or seeing spooks but if you pay really close attention to the way people act and think these days you might see a rift in the middle.

On the one side there are the older folk, not old, just older, that have more or less sowed their oats, have no desire to rock the boat too badly, voice their opinions in an orderly manner, and have generally conformed to the present societal norms despite their protests to the contrary.[/quote

So are you accusing us of all being "older"? ;)

Randy wrote:
On the other side there is the MSM, politicians, colleges and universities, and highly (easily) influenced, peer pressured young folks that are trying to find out where or if they fit someplace in this society. This is the group that gets all the attention because they are the most active as a group.
There really isn't an age defined line in the sand however because people figure out how they fit at different rates in different geographical demographics.


Ain't that the truth?

Randy wrote:
Country folks generally find their fit earlier on, but as the size and concentration related to an area grows, so too does the age rise for a person trying to find out where they fit.


Country road, take me home... to the place, I belong...

Everyone in America needs this more than they know!

Randy wrote:
In some areas there is no possible way to fit in the mainstream or even close to it. These are the ones seen on the national news in bad way. Extremely few in number, the MSM makes them seem like they are taking over like zombies on apocalypse day.


Which brings us to the rest of the story.


Randy wrote:
I think the public is showing their anger at the wrong politicians; the real politicians are the news-people, the ones that have the influence over what they brainwash the people to think.

It's a fact that if a lie is told often enough, that even the most steadfast disbeliever will start questioning their beliefs. That is the foot in the door. When the foot is planted firmly the resistance dwindles by a like amount. It is nearly impossible to rally a disenfranchised minset so the damage has been done. This has been taking place for a hundred years so turning it around isn't going to happen overnight, if ever.



The Never Ending story. If there is any chance of recovery, it is certainly slim and in no way will be realized in our lives.
Politicians on both sides will insure that things remain "status quo". Whatever happens, life as we know (knew) it has ended.
We are in a new era and only time will tell where it leads us. My opine is certainly negative on this. Can only hope that I'm wrong!

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Last edited by Ex_ISP on Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:41 am 
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Hmmm... This is getting to be interesting!! A hell of a rant Randy!! As far as what's changed with people now days - I am pretty sure I could explain that! But, it seems like whenever I go on a rant here, I end up with people upset with me!! It's hard for people to be totally honest with themselves...
As far as our national financial mess goes, believe it or not, all we need is for the government to just simply get the hell out of the way!! The government is what is holding us back. If the government would just unchain the businesses and companies and let the entrepreneurial spirit of the people of the United States be unleashed, they probably could afford a lot of the socialist give-away programs they love so much. But the dumb bastards think we have to "get" the "rich people" and promote class envy to the max. "Hate the rich" they say!! And the lap dog MSM is on their side, all the way!!
What we're going thru now is pretty similar to the 70's. The economy stagnated, interest rates were sky high and taxes were insanely high I think the top tax rate was around 35% In fact look here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... 79/266764/
In punishing the rich, we're screwing ourselves - Simple as that!!
So, in 79 we had a liberal, totally worthless (sorry Jimmy) president like we do now. Then in 1980?? Yes!! Ronald Regan!! Small government, less stupid regulations, and waaay lower taxes. It takes a while to kick in, but it works!! It started the biggest peace-time expansion of our economy we've ever seen!!
To sharpen my point - I hope history is repeating itself here. People are slowly getting fed up with things the way they are. There is SLOW improvement but NOTHING like it could be!! We NEED a good strong conservative, NO compromise on taxes President to fix this.
Let us pray that America isn't stupid enough to elect another indecisive, socialist financial idiot for President like we have now...

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:43 am 
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Perception and reality are often at odds.
jasonsch wrote:
...Then in 1980?? Yes!! Ronald Regan!! Small government, less stupid regulations, and waaay lower taxes ...

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Jason, you don't get in 'in trouble' here (although Walt will occasionally wrap your knuckles with a yardstick like a school marm :whistle: ), but what may be happening is you are focusing too much on specifics.

The overriding reason we are in this predicament is NOT from one root cause as the college educated academics would have us believe. The problems started way before the '70's; like maybe 40 - 50 years before the '70's. The '70's just turned the corner into the technology age which we are in now. Before then it was simply the mechanical age. Don't forget the three biggest worldwide phenomena up to that point was TV, telephone and radio (in electronic technology only)

There is no one particular group that caused all this, back in the seventies the bad people were the conservatives, before than it was the libs, it's now the conserv's again. This opinion changes on a cyclic schedule depending on the mood of the country. But we have limited actual memories of factual occurrences from years gone by because the news is about the serious winners or serious losers and seldom about the middle of the road where the majority almost always has to reside.

It's called a bell curve, or Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule, (in all situations, 20% of causes determine 80% of problems), and this is so true today as always. If it was charted, the curve would start low and slow, increase quickly towards the middle 20% and descend at the same rate as the rise. This is where the saying came from that if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

So, back to getting in trouble here, don't worry about it. Those folks that can't deal with reality quit the forum and those that can deal figure out a way how to not turn it into a personal affront to their very person, or in other words; the adults.

So argue a point as much as you like, just don't target the point to accurately. It's not the POTUS's fault and it seldom is, he is after all, more or less just a figure head in the government.

The lesson's that we learned as a country back in the '30 are why the country is trying to do more for the poor folks, but in reality it depends on the poor folks to do their part also and that hasn't happened, it's human nature, we take the path of least resistance, that is why we have invented all of these contraptions that prevent us from doing actual labor in order to stay alive. We seek the easy way.

But, in reference to your reference to the rich, I would love to hear how say, Bill Gates or Bloomberg having billions worth, is in any way helping the economy? They lay people off when the work slows down like any companies would, they don't pay any better than the competition, maybe a few of the C-suits are getting rich in their companies but so what? My opinion is that opening businesses up to self govern is a invitation to disaster. Every job in America will go to Pakistan of some other Istan where the money lords can get much more for practically nothing, this too is already happening, there is nothing good that comes from greed because the 80/20 rule comes into effect.

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May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

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It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

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Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

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Last edited by Randy on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Randy wrote:
...the real politicians are the news-people, the ones that have the influence over what they brainwash the people to think.

It's a fact that if a lie is told often enough, that even the most steadfast disbeliever will start questioning their beliefs...

I could not agree more. But on the media and news reporters, I kind of see it as a chicken or egg situation. They are a business afterall and their primary objective is to make money, not to change the world. So they talk about whatever generates the most ratings. The question then becomes, do people's attitudes change to align with the viewpoint of their reporting, or, are they merely reporting what people want to hear?

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Randy wrote:
... It's not the POTUS's fault and it seldom is, he is after all, more or less just a figure head in the government...

Now those are seldom heard words of wisdom.

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:55 pm 
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This is about Microsoft from the Wikipedia site:
While jointly developing a new OS with IBM in 1984, OS/2, Microsoft released Microsoft Windows, a graphical extension for MS-DOS, on November 20, 1985. Microsoft moved its headquarters to Redmond on February 26, 1986, and on March 13 the company went public; the ensuing rise in the stock would make an estimated four billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees.
That's just one way Bill Gates helped the economy.

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:18 am 
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jasonsch wrote:
This is about Microsoft from the Wikipedia site:
While jointly developing a new OS with IBM in 1984, OS/2, Microsoft released Microsoft Windows, a graphical extension for MS-DOS, on November 20, 1985. Microsoft moved its headquarters to Redmond on February 26, 1986, and on March 13 the company went public; the ensuing rise in the stock would make an estimated four billionaires and 12,000 millionaires from Microsoft employees.
That's just one way Bill Gates helped the economy.


How is that minutia helping the economy? As I said a few get rich and the millions don't. Microsoft currently has over 99,000 employees worldwide as of this year, not to mention it's subsidiaries. So mentioning them making 12,000 millionaires is rather pointless in a 38 year run. But it does help my point; rich people don't empower poor people to come even close to being wealthy, however, they make wealthy people much wealthier. It takes money to make money. With the business climate in 1984-85, it was ripe for anyone to get a business loan. Not saying Gates didn't have business sense because either he did or he had people that did. But I'm not impressed. If he came up with a computer these days would he have done nearly as good? Every once in a while even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

Reference; http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/inside_ms.aspx#RevenueHeadcount

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May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:54 am 
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I guess what worries me Randy what your saying about the rich is aligned with what the MSM is spewing. It isn't the rich peoples job to empower the poor. But most of the time they actually do! How many thousands more people did Bill Gates help become wealthier with his stock? The ones that made less than a million. Maybe the employees that were in the $100,000+ or - range? Then there are all the people that own computer stores that sell Microsoft products. Then the people that bought them that used them to make money. Then just regular people like you and me could have bought stock too, and many did. Then there is just the general improvement of our lives that computers and software have brought to us all. From medical uses to us debating about it on HPT. To not be impressed by that one has to have a narrow view of things.
The founding fathers wanted us to have the right to be free and pursue happiness. What Bill Gates or anyone else makes or is none of our damn business and it shouldn't be the governments business either. We have the same opportunity to better ourselves thru hard work and self reliance: Not to look at what others have and say it isn't fair. When we think others have too much and come up with "legal" ways to steal it from them (aka taxes) and give it to others that didn't earn it, that's flat out socialism.
And speaking of the poor, America has the richest poor people in the world. How many TV's or cell phones or cars do poor american's have compared to some of the really poor countries? This free enterprise thing has carried us (and the world) a LONG way. And it can take us a lot further, if we would just let it!! :D
I am not trying to insult anyone here or make anyone mad. I truly enjoy these conversations and consider all of you friends. I'm just throwing my :opinion: in about what I think about things. If you think I'm wrong, challenge me!! We might all learn something!! :Smile3:

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:34 am 
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jasonsch wrote:

And speaking of the poor, America has the richest poor people in the world. How many TV's or cell phones or cars do poor american's have compared to some of the really poor countries?


Good point, I remember when PCs first came out thinking that I would never need one.... we currently have 2 desktops, 3 laptops, 1 tablet, and 2 smart phones that are for all intent and purposes computers. so that's a total of 8 computers for 3 people

And I am on the lower scale of income for the US

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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:12 am 
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OK, I'll backpedal some here. While I'm not an advocate of taking something from someone that was earned legitimately through the sweat of their brow, I suppose (since I really don't understand finances to much) what I mean is simply that I don't like big business. The government coddles them with lower than normal taxes, so in other words, the BS they spew about them paying an inordinate amount of taxes means what? That they pay millions in taxes because they couldn't find anywhere to hide the billions in profit? All I'm advocating is equal taxes for all pay structures. If Gates and/or company pays 0.09% taxes then I want to pay the same exact amount. There should not be a lessor tax levied on someone that makes more money. A flat tax is something I've advocated since I was old enough to pay taxes. My 10% taxes means I'd be paying the exact same amount (theoretically) as the richest people the country. However, you need money to take advantage of all the loopholes so filling in all those tax loopholes so they HAVE to pay taxes on the money they earn seems only appropriate. Being able to skip around paying taxes on 100 million dollars because you give it to a charity is bullshit. That was still money that was earned, therefore it should be taxed. Maybe it is but getting a tax break for it isn't right.

I also believe there needs to be more oversight concerning the Execs as well as the stakeholders in these publicly traded companies to ensure they pay taxes on every dime they earn whether it's a salary or a bonus or any other stipend, no 'gifting' in amounts exceeding $10k a year allowed without taxes.
I'm just saying that these big businesses have the government wrapped around their pinky finger tight enough to cut off the circulation. All anyone ever hears is that if their taxes go up to the same normal amount the average citizen pays then no jobs would be formed. :shock: :roll: I'm not seeing that happen anyway. Wally's farts made in the BILLIONS of dollars in profit last year alone, yet they paid less tax %wise than any other company, why is that considered OK? They have the lowest paid workforce in the world for any company of comparable size (since there are no companies of comparable size that's kind of a moot point) and we admire scumbags like that? What does that say about us as a society?

The Romans were in the same spot as we are now and their demise happened at about the same rate as we are apparently going. It should take about another 200 years for our society to go the way of the dodo if history repeats itself; as it surely will.

Anyway, no worries about losing a buddy here, I don't generally get emotional over this type debate, it's a generally pointless argument all the way around because the status quo isn't going to change in my lifetime.

On the other hand, accepting queers and lesbians as human? Now that's a moral issue that I take as an affront to normal humanity. So I try not to go there. Folks can do anything they damn well please as long as they keep it to themselves is all I believe. They can be closet nazi's, closet arians, closet queers, closet anything; just don't flaunt it in public or expect equal bennies, also something that helped cause the demise of the Romans.

_________________
http://smalltowngunshops.blogspot.com/

“It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.” — General George S. Patton

May we always realize the cost of our freedom. We can never repay them, but the very least we can do is uphold the ideals that they died protecting and honor them in the choices we make each day.

”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
It's gettin close boys. The time is near.

The greatest RE-productive force is human selfishness (Say NO! to population growth!).

--No good deed goes unpunished--

When we do good, nobody remembers, when we do bad, nobody forgets. --unknown

Just because you are unnatural, bizarre, bring problems on yourself, and don't fit in does not mean I dislike you...well, yeah it does

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” ― Hunter S. Thompson


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 Post subject: Re: Took my girls to the range.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:57 am 
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Collector
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:10 am
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Location: okc
Age: 41
Businesses do NOT pay taxes at all, ever, period.
Taxes are figured into the price per unit to produce, sale price set accordingly and viola profits remain steady.
True enough that since businesses pay no taxes, stories of tax breaks for business or corporate welfare are just a variation on the whole "demonize the rich" strategy except they can leave out the step where they dehumanizing the target because a business is already not human.
Just a big shell game but make no mistake, your being played like a $2 violin.
There's nothing immoral or unethical about making a profit.
Nothing wrong with producing profits for share holders.
Want some of those profits? Buy some stocks.
want to see rich people have their wealth stolen at gunpoint for redistribution to less productive, sorry meant less fortunate, citizens? That's called robbery and theft is against the 10 commandments.
Think about it.

_________________
Mans laws apply only to those who can't afford to break them, but the laws of physics are inviolate.


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