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 Post subject: "Precision Reloading" Range Report
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Well guys, I ended up going to the range twice... Last Friday and Saturday morning.
The 1st time I went I kinda forgot something about my high-dollar ($75 used!!) NcStar MarkIII 6-24x50 scope...

It has a real narrow eye-relief - I have to have my eye in exactly the right spot when then power is cranked up to 24.
The parallax is a bitch with this scope too to say the least - But it has other things I like about it like side focus and target turrets.

That being said (sounds like an excuse doesn't it??) What I normally do is just work with the scope. I can usually do pretty good with it.
But the 1st time I went out I didn't do that and didn't have very good results.
I shot 50, 100, 200, and 300 yard targets - and I shot at the steel targets they have at 300 yards too.
And, even though I didn't do as good as I'd hoped - I shot 120 rounds and had a great time!!

I went back out the 2nd time and shot 4 targets at 100 yards and 2 targets at 300 yards.
I used the same load for all shots fired..
That distance of 300 yards... That's pretty far away!!

Anyway - This bag arrived with a 1,000 55gr spire-point Hornady bullets in it...

Image

I loaded up a Hornady 55gr spire point bullet and used 23.5gr of 3031 powder and CCI magnum small rifle primers.
The LC military brass was bought off GB a while back and was not fired in my gun before.
I was really happy with how my Lee Load-Master did with these rifle rounds.
They are a little tougher to load than pistol round that's for sure...

There was one time there where I squished 4 or 5 primers and wondered WTF was going on...
I thing that pokes the used primers out of the brass slid up and wasn't pushing them out.
So it was trying to put a primer in while there was a primer still in there!!
That was with the 1st batch of military brass I bought - primer pockets weren't swaged very well.
I'll be putting a chamfer on the rest of them...

So - I got all set up on the fairly rough and uncomfortable cement shooting bench.

Image

That's my AR with the 24" heavy Stainless barrel with it's $75 scope and my homemade sand bags.
They put a roof over the benches and one guy even volunteered (and did!!) to spray insulation on the underside to help keep things quieter.
The shade is nice in the summer!!
But it was around 6° - 8° when I went out and I was in the shade the whole time I was shooting and a slight breeze...
I had my Carhartt coat on - But just sitting there for 3 hours on that 1st day.
I got a little cold at the end!! Still a lot of fun though. :great:
The 2nd day I was only there for an hour or so and we still had a little wind.

The 1st day targets all sucked like a black hole... I really was off my game.
So I'm showing the targets that I believe are the most relevant.

Enough bull - lets get to the targets!!

These are the 2nd day targets:

Image

These were the 5 shot 100 yard targets.
The group sizes were 2.375" - 2" - 2" and 1.5" on the lower right.
Take the flyer out of the last one:

Image

And it's a .75 group. (-:
Also, I had it sighted in to hit about 3 inches high at a 100 yards (in theory, a 250 yard zero) so I could still aim right at the 300 targets and the bullets would hit the targets.

Below are my 200 yard targets from the 1st day:

Image

We have a 3.25" and a 5" group... :dunno:
Just a so-so result - it'd be a dead coyote for sure and is about right considering the 100 yard groups.

The 300 yard targets from the 1st day:

Image

The targets were pretty safe... one hit out of 10 shots. Not good at all. )-:

I know this rifle can do better than that... So what went wrong??
Well - I explained above about working with the scope.

I shot a bunch of rounds at the steel targets we have at 300 yards:

Image

I got so I could hit the bigger 2 of them:

Image

I figured out it was hitting a lot lower at 300 yards than I thought, and the wind was blowing it off to the right 4 or 5 inches.
Yes.. Looking back - I should have shot at the steel targets 1st to get an idea of where it was hitting.

So - I used these targets for my 300 yard shooting...

Image

Sorry my size 15 foot is in that picture... If it's ok for Hobbles to do that, I can too!!! (-:
I drew them up on AutoCad and printed them out - each line is an inch apart.
I put a bright orange circle where I wanted to aim.
I will be able to tell how much my bullet is dropping - Ballistic table said it should drop 4.7 inches at 300 yards.

These are the 300 yard targets from the 2nd day when I was working with my scope a little better.
These are 10 shot groups.

Image

That might look a little confusing... All but one of the bullets I shot at the left target hit the right target - on the left side. There are 8 hits total.
And the right target had 6 hits - and way to the right you can see 2 or 3 hits on the steel of the target and splattered on the right side of the target.
And the there was a little breeze that day - so I aimed at the orange circle. Surely they'd all hit the 8-1/2 x 11 target!! :neutral:

This is a better picture:

Image

We have a 6" group on the left and a 5.25" on the right - they are actually bigger than that as we have some that didn't hit the target.
And with 10 shot groups - I figger that ain't too awful bad.

That little breeze blew my bullets 4-6 inches to the right.
My SIL snapped out his cell phone and informed me a bullet with a .235 Ballistic Coefficient
would drift around 4-1/2" in a 5mph win at 300 yards... Yep - I can believe that!!

Another thing to consider about this that I really didn't think of until it was over...
The brass had not been fired in my rifle before - And that brass is usually a little "roughed up" by the time it gets to the end user.
So I do believe that was a factor here...

I am figuring on coming back with some targets I shot with some brass that's been run through my gun once.

Will it make any difference??
I would think so - but it looks like my shooting is a little more crappy that I'd like or remember...
But, despite the "less than stellar" and disappointing results, I still have a lot of fun!!!
And I can use the practice. :D

Thanks!! (-:

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 Post subject: Re: "Precision Reloading" Range Report
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:03 pm 
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You want to go heavier bullets for the 300 yard target, even without wind the 55gr just don't have a good enough BC for any great accuracy at that distance. Check out Rocky Mountain reloading's stuff for .223, they have some mixed bag 62-64gr stuff that got mixed up from where they bought them so you get like $4 off because you'll have to weigh each of them to see which they are. I have some Hornady 68gr BTHP loaded up that work great for longer distances. If I join this rifle club I'll be able to shoot out to 500 yards, but that'll be more for the .308 than the 5.56.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:35 pm 
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At least you had fun.

When you reload for a semi auto rifle you should be full length resizing to help with feed issues. Shouldn't matter if it's been fired in your gun or not.

This is different for single shot and bolt actions where fire formed brass (fired from your gun to conform the the chamber) can reduce blow-by. This brass is normally only neck sized.

There is a lot to precision loading from seating depth to powder charge and the powder used.

I've tried 4198, BL-C2 and Varget in my 24" AR and my best came with BL-C2 at around 3000 fps.

I'm gonna load a bunch up with 4198 just to use it up.

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 Post subject: Re: "Precision Reloading" Range Report
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:43 pm 
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That's true Tolly!!
My Hornady measuring devices help keep the headspace consistent and the bullet depth consistent too.

But the brass - I bought it from a guy off GB and it's all supposed to be once fired military brass.
But so much of it seemed to have various little dings, dents and divots...
It seems like once it's fired in my rifle - I have a lot better luck the next time I reload it.
I found the same thing with my bolt action 308 too...

And maybe that doesn't have that much to do with it. :dunno:

But, I reloaded 90 rounds with the same bullets and same amount and powder and went out to the range today.

I hung up 2 targets a 300 yards and did 5 shots at each one.

And!!!!

They suck.

But, I do have another very good excuse!!

I just loaded my 10 round mag - and - 2 a$$-holes pulled up behind me and got out and stood there and watched...
"We're in no hurry!!"
If you were in no hurry wtf did you stop and bother me??

So, I just don't do well with an audience - performance anxiety I guess - which is why my porn-star career didn't work out... :roll:

Anyway - before I shot at the paper targets - I shot at the metal targets they have at 300 yards.
I his the largest one 8 times out of 10 with the 1st mag!! :shock:

I shot at them 1st because I adjusted my scope to zero it in closer for 300 yards.
I had a little side breeze and adjusted the scope 4" up and 3.75" to the left.

I shot 40 rounds at those things and I think I had 30+ hits.
I only took a couple shots at the smallest one.

Image

So I was much happier with that - even though my paper targets sucked.

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Schofield Gun Sales on FB

Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


Last edited by jasonsch on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Jason, I think we have nearly identical "target ARs" if I remember right except the scope, I have that Nikon coyote special on mine that I got from you.

I can shoot nice groups at 100 yards with some cheap ass 55 grain bullets but a heavier bullet does much better. The 1:8 twist likes the heavier ones.

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 Post subject: Re: "Precision Reloading" Range Report
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:07 pm 
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That Nikon coyote special is a lot better scope that I have!! (-:

And I don't think I made it clear in the above post that in those 90 rounds I reloaded, I used the same military brass - only once fired in my AR.

srtolly wrote:
At least you had fun.

When you reload for a semi auto rifle you should be full length resizing to help with feed issues. Shouldn't matter if it's been fired in your gun or not.

This is different for single shot and bolt actions where fire formed brass (fired from your gun to conform the the chamber) can reduce blow-by. This brass is normally only neck sized.

Well - I hope you're happy now...
I ordered a Lee collet die - actually 2 of them!! One for my bolt action .308 and one .223 for my AR.

I know full well more than likely I won't be able to neck-size my AR brass...
But, the just fired empty brass chambers and extracts pretty easy!!

So, i hope they get here pretty soon - maybe Thursday??
Weather might slow it down too...

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Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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 Post subject: Re: "Precision Reloading" Range Report
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:10 am 
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Those collet dies arrived today!!

Image

I'll be able to reload some rounds this weekend but I don't know if I'll be able to try them out with all the snow we got.
The weatherman said it's supposed to be in the upper 40's Saturday and Sunday and it's supposed to hit 50° by Monday - That should melt some snow!!

I'm pretty excited to see how these dies work, :mrgreen:

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Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


“The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.”
Article VI, Section 24 of the South Dakota Constitution


I sure miss you Amp - (Dean Stephens) - Wish I could have met you.


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